Comments on: Charles Manson :: Lie: The Love and Terror Cult http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/ Los Angeles Based MP3 & Music Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:21:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Fritz ATWA http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-2612607 Fritz ATWA Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:12:10 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-2612607 Why do you think it's called LIE? It was meant to make fun of LIFE magazine because of all the lies they posted about him. In fact practically everything known by the average person, Healter Skelter that is, are blatant lies. Vincent Bugliosi saw the trial as an opportunity to make money and after LIFE magazine helped to create the mysterious hippie cult hype about him Vincent Bugliosi figured he could write a book that in the end made him over 1 Billion dollars and this is not exaggeration. I think that would be pretty good motivation to ruin and innocent persons life. And the way he did it was just as ridiculous. He made an agreement with Linda Kasabian who had only met Manson once, and got her to testify Vincent's fabricated Healter Skelter scenario in return for her freedom. Of course she would make the agreement too because she barely even knew who Charles Manson was. After that the money started printing for Vincent Bugliosi and the whole world was giving the negative connotations of Charles Manson that they continue to have. When truthfully Charles Manson was very humble and independent man. And after a life in prison for petty crimes that gave him more time than usual. He found himself in California where the children of the 60's seemed to flock aroudn him. There was no commanding, he didn't even want the attention but being the kind person that he was, he let them stay with him as he drifted until settling at Spahn Ranch. He did partake in some small crimes and ate out of garbage cans to survive but never came up with any Healter Skelter ideas. Eventually with all the drugs goign around, Tex Watson and Susan Atkins went crazy and started to think that they should kill the residence of Terry Melchers house but this was thier own idea. They other motivations behind the murders was to create copycat murders so they could get a friend out of Prison. Some who participated also fealt that they would be helping ATWA but this was thier own decision. So if Charles Manson wasn't about Healter Skelter, then what was he about? Charles Manson was about survival, through all the time in his life he became very wise which was one of the reasons the kids loved him. And with this wisdom came all his knoledge of how sad the world had become with the pollution that everyone was contributing, and he came up with ATWA which was his phillosephy about saving the envirnment from pollution. He also reflected a lot on his life and learned about the human condition. You can obviously tell that he did this and that Healter Skelter is made up by the fact in all his interviews and music and friends, if you listen with unbiased ears not infected by the media, you never once hear him say anything even resembling Healter Skelter which is pretty strange if that was sopposedly his idea. Plus nearly all of his friends from Spahn Ranch could attest to him not even caring about the beatles. Sure they listened to them but they were 60's kids and it would be normal for them to like music. Kids usually do. The only ones who said he beleived Healter Skelter was Linda who didn't even know him in the first place and was just trying to save her own ass. Tex and Susan may have made implications in their books but they were so high on Meth, Coke, and LSD that they didn't know what the hell was going on at the time; they just felt like killing. They just wanted people to like them after getting imprisoned and would say whatever it took, which you can see by there turn to Christianity. But Charles Manson is actually a very smart and wise man. He still makes recordings, Music, and talks about Philosephy and ATWA with the help of his new friends Star and Redwolf and will hopefully be released someday. When you listen to him in the music, recordings, and interviews you can either view it as crazy mumbo jumbo or you could open your ears and hear what he has to say about saving the World from pollution. So do you want to believe the truth or the media? Why do you think it’s called LIE? It was meant to make fun of LIFE magazine because of all the lies they posted about him. In fact practically everything known by the average person, Healter Skelter that is, are blatant lies. Vincent Bugliosi saw the trial as an opportunity to make money and after LIFE magazine helped to create the mysterious hippie cult hype about him Vincent Bugliosi figured he could write a book that in the end made him over 1 Billion dollars and this is not exaggeration. I think that would be pretty good motivation to ruin and innocent persons life. And the way he did it was just as ridiculous. He made an agreement with Linda Kasabian who had only met Manson once, and got her to testify Vincent’s fabricated Healter Skelter scenario in return for her freedom. Of course she would make the agreement too because she barely even knew who Charles Manson was. After that the money started printing for Vincent Bugliosi and the whole world was giving the negative connotations of Charles Manson that they continue to have. When truthfully Charles Manson was very humble and independent man. And after a life in prison for petty crimes that gave him more time than usual. He found himself in California where the children of the 60′s seemed to flock aroudn him. There was no commanding, he didn’t even want the attention but being the kind person that he was, he let them stay with him as he drifted until settling at Spahn Ranch. He did partake in some small crimes and ate out of garbage cans to survive but never came up with any Healter Skelter ideas. Eventually with all the drugs goign around, Tex Watson and Susan Atkins went crazy and started to think that they should kill the residence of Terry Melchers house but this was thier own idea. They other motivations behind the murders was to create copycat murders so they could get a friend out of Prison. Some who participated also fealt that they would be helping ATWA but this was thier own decision. So if Charles Manson wasn’t about Healter Skelter, then what was he about? Charles Manson was about survival, through all the time in his life he became very wise which was one of the reasons the kids loved him. And with this wisdom came all his knoledge of how sad the world had become with the pollution that everyone was contributing, and he came up with ATWA which was his phillosephy about saving the envirnment from pollution. He also reflected a lot on his life and learned about the human condition. You can obviously tell that he did this and that Healter Skelter is made up by the fact in all his interviews and music and friends, if you listen with unbiased ears not infected by the media, you never once hear him say anything even resembling Healter Skelter which is pretty strange if that was sopposedly his idea. Plus nearly all of his friends from Spahn Ranch could attest to him not even caring about the beatles. Sure they listened to them but they were 60′s kids and it would be normal for them to like music. Kids usually do. The only ones who said he beleived Healter Skelter was Linda who didn’t even know him in the first place and was just trying to save her own ass. Tex and Susan may have made implications in their books but they were so high on Meth, Coke, and LSD that they didn’t know what the hell was going on at the time; they just felt like killing. They just wanted people to like them after getting imprisoned and would say whatever it took, which you can see by there turn to Christianity. But Charles Manson is actually a very smart and wise man. He still makes recordings, Music, and talks about Philosephy and ATWA with the help of his new friends Star and Redwolf and will hopefully be released someday. When you listen to him in the music, recordings, and interviews you can either view it as crazy mumbo jumbo or you could open your ears and hear what he has to say about saving the World from pollution. So do you want to believe the truth or the media?

]]> By: Aquarium Drunkard » Red River Dave :: California Hippie Murders http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-1176955 Aquarium Drunkard » Red River Dave :: California Hippie Murders Tue, 26 Oct 2010 02:12:48 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-1176955 [...] year during Halloween we profiled Charles Manson’s controversial 1970 LP Lie: The Love and Terror Cult—a must-read for [...] [...] year during Halloween we profiled Charles Manson’s controversial 1970 LP Lie: The Love and Terror Cult—a must-read for [...]

]]> By: Kenny Bloggins http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-918002 Kenny Bloggins Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:40:44 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-918002 Thanks for posting this. I actually really like the Lie record. I think it's great, and I have no issue feeling that way. The fact is that there's lot of music out there performed by people who have done horrible things. Not as bad as Manson necessarily, but as the last two comments suggest, you have to isolate the work completely. Just like in criticism, you can't judge work based on whether you like someone as a person. I have friends I love that make music I hate. Conversely, I love music by some total assholes. If you can't listen to Charles Manson because of his actions, I would argue you can't take John Lennon's peace and love statements seriously either, considering how horrible he was to his first wife and Julian. The music and the person, often, are two separate entities. Except for Daniel Johnston maybe.... Thanks for posting this. I actually really like the Lie record. I think it’s great, and I have no issue feeling that way. The fact is that there’s lot of music out there performed by people who have done horrible things. Not as bad as Manson necessarily, but as the last two comments suggest, you have to isolate the work completely.

Just like in criticism, you can’t judge work based on whether you like someone as a person. I have friends I love that make music I hate. Conversely, I love music by some total assholes. If you can’t listen to Charles Manson because of his actions, I would argue you can’t take John Lennon’s peace and love statements seriously either, considering how horrible he was to his first wife and Julian. The music and the person, often, are two separate entities. Except for Daniel Johnston maybe….

]]> By: Cahn http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-917681 Cahn Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:17:56 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-917681 Brandon has the right idea. To separate the monster and the music is what we have to remember. Keeping that in mind. I downloaded Mansons music about 3 months ago because I heard "Look At Your Game Girl" I thought that he had a great voice and was amazed I hadn't heard it before. Well Lie was part of the download and I have to say really the rest of the music was really slap dash and had a lack of focus. I couldn't find another track that was as good as the first one I heard. The other download was him in the studio trying to do demos and it is very telling of what kind of man he was. When it came to his music he was very unsure of his skill. He could hardly get through a song with out stopping or laughing or talking to the producer. He didn't know what to do is what I am saying. Now maybe if Manson had a good producer (Phil Spector HAHA!) something could of come of it. His music sounded as confusing as I suspect his mind was. That said like most music it is subjective. I don't think it is that good to even have this discussion. He has one good song and some good ideas that never panned out. But some people might like it. Hey alot of people like Jack Johnson too. But I think even the writer of the article is putting more weight on it by saying that he was scared (I know that isn't the word but you know what i mean) to like it. (By the way the article is brilliant). The writers article is better than mansons music! If it truly was THAT good this really would be a moral question. If Manson was more organized in his writing he would be more organized in his life and mind and if that was the case he probably wouldn't be a killer. So I find his music totally fitting of his life. Interesting, terrible, sometimes sad, unorganized, unfocused and ultimately unsatisfying. There is a reason that Terry Melcher wasn't interested in his music. Brandon has the right idea. To separate the monster and the music is what we have to remember. Keeping that in mind. I downloaded Mansons music about 3 months ago because I heard “Look At Your Game Girl” I thought that he had a great voice and was amazed I hadn’t heard it before. Well Lie was part of the download and I have to say really the rest of the music was really slap dash and had a lack of focus. I couldn’t find another track that was as good as the first one I heard. The other download was him in the studio trying to do demos and it is very telling of what kind of man he was. When it came to his music he was very unsure of his skill. He could hardly get through a song with out stopping or laughing or talking to the producer. He didn’t know what to do is what I am saying. Now maybe if Manson had a good producer (Phil Spector HAHA!) something could of come of it. His music sounded as confusing as I suspect his mind was. That said like most music it is subjective. I don’t think it is that good to even have this discussion. He has one good song and some good ideas that never panned out. But some people might like it. Hey alot of people like Jack Johnson too. But I think even the writer of the article is putting more weight on it by saying that he was scared (I know that isn’t the word but you know what i mean) to like it. (By the way the article is brilliant). The writers article is better than mansons music! If it truly was THAT good this really would be a moral question. If Manson was more organized in his writing he would be more organized in his life and mind and if that was the case he probably wouldn’t be a killer. So I find his music totally fitting of his life. Interesting, terrible, sometimes sad, unorganized, unfocused and ultimately unsatisfying. There is a reason that Terry Melcher wasn’t interested in his music.

]]> By: Brandon http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-916394 Brandon Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:28:10 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-916394 I have mildly mixed feelings about these songs. They aren't great, but they are good. Should I feel guilty for thinking that they are good? I don't think so. At first I was unsure if I should even listen. But now I'm glad that I did. I would hope that anyone who is unwilling to listen to these songs simply because they are Charles Manson never listens to a Phil Spector production again. I have mildly mixed feelings about these songs. They aren’t great, but they are good. Should I feel guilty for thinking that they are good? I don’t think so. At first I was unsure if I should even listen. But now I’m glad that I did.

I would hope that anyone who is unwilling to listen to these songs simply because they are Charles Manson never listens to a Phil Spector production again.

]]> By: marty http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-915413 marty Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:49:58 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-915413 @ Steveo -- That's an excellent point. Maybe he was singing to himself and was, like you said, "confused by all the delusion". I hadn't thought of it in those terms. @ Steveo — That’s an excellent point. Maybe he was singing to himself and was, like you said, “confused by all the delusion”. I hadn’t thought of it in those terms.

]]> By: Steveo http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-915304 Steveo Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:49:32 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-915304 Good call Jossie. I felt sad for him too. He has a much better voice than I figured — and a dead-ringer for Davandra Barnhart. Maybe he should have looked at his own game. As a songwriter myself, often the lyrics I'm singing that pretty girls think is all about them, is actually advice to myself. The questions I pose to others are really meant for me. Maybe 'ole Charlie was "confused by all the delusion" and what could have been a promising singing career, took a much darker turn. I almost wanted to go visit him in prison and give him a hug, then I realized he looks like an aging crack head and who has a forty-year-old swastika carved in his head. Cest la vie. Good call Jossie. I felt sad for him too.
He has a much better voice than I figured — and a dead-ringer for Davandra Barnhart.
Maybe he should have looked at his own game. As a songwriter myself, often the lyrics I’m singing that pretty girls think is all about them, is actually advice to myself. The questions I pose to others are really meant for me. Maybe ‘ole Charlie was “confused by all the delusion” and what could have been a promising singing career, took a much darker turn.
I almost wanted to go visit him in prison and give him a hug, then I realized he looks like an aging crack head and who has a forty-year-old swastika carved in his head. Cest la vie.

]]> By: jossie http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-915249 jossie Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:18:29 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-915249 Saw this link over at Buddyhead. I was reluctant to play it at first, not because it was from a convicted murderer but because I thought the songs would sound like gothy, Marilyn Manson stuff. I'm surprised, "...Game girl" was actually, uh, sweet. At one point, I actually felt sad for him. Good job, marty. Enlightening response to CTL (#13) as well. Saw this link over at Buddyhead. I was reluctant to play it at first, not because it was from a convicted murderer but because I thought the songs would sound like gothy, Marilyn Manson stuff. I’m surprised, “…Game girl” was actually, uh, sweet. At one point, I actually felt sad for him.
Good job, marty. Enlightening response to CTL (#13) as well.

]]> By: Morning Buzz: Fun, Dethklok, Stone Roses, Charles Manson | BUZZGRINDER http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-915246 Morning Buzz: Fun, Dethklok, Stone Roses, Charles Manson | BUZZGRINDER Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:02:16 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-915246 [...] Forgot to mention this the other day when I saw it, but Aquarium Drunkard discusses the merits (yes, the merits) of Charles Manson’s album Lie: The Terror and Love [...] [...] Forgot to mention this the other day when I saw it, but Aquarium Drunkard discusses the merits (yes, the merits) of Charles Manson’s album Lie: The Terror and Love [...]

]]> By: Aquarium Drunkard on Charles Manson – Lie: The Love and Terror Cult | BUDDYHEAD http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-915023 Aquarium Drunkard on Charles Manson – Lie: The Love and Terror Cult | BUDDYHEAD Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:29:39 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-915023 [...] out AD’s post on Charles Manson by clicking HERE. Or skip the whole reading thing and just download the evil [...] [...] out AD’s post on Charles Manson by clicking HERE. Or skip the whole reading thing and just download the evil [...]

]]> By: marty http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-914648 marty Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:04:03 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-914648 @ CTL--can't tell you how much I appreciate your grace. I was worried that I'd been too harsh in my response. Thanks for your support! @ Steveo--I'm not trying to suggest that the music of Charles Manson is going to make anyone kill. People who do the things that Manson did (or any killer etc) do those things no matter what music they listen to. What I'm arguing for is, essentially, the morality of music, and whether it's wise to listen to something just because we enjoy it. It differs from the hysteria of the backwards-masked records because I'm not suggesting that this album will make us all evil; if I believed that, I wouldn't have written about it, and I would have asked Justin not to attach the mp3s. I'm simply arguing that not all "good" or well-made art is worth consuming. @ CTL–can’t tell you how much I appreciate your grace. I was worried that I’d been too harsh in my response. Thanks for your support!

@ Steveo–I’m not trying to suggest that the music of Charles Manson is going to make anyone kill. People who do the things that Manson did (or any killer etc) do those things no matter what music they listen to. What I’m arguing for is, essentially, the morality of music, and whether it’s wise to listen to something just because we enjoy it. It differs from the hysteria of the backwards-masked records because I’m not suggesting that this album will make us all evil; if I believed that, I wouldn’t have written about it, and I would have asked Justin not to attach the mp3s. I’m simply arguing that not all “good” or well-made art is worth consuming.

]]> By: Steveo http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-914603 Steveo Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:04:03 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-914603 Why's everybody scared to listen to these songs?It's like the hysteria of playing records backwards, or going after Juda Priest in the 80s. "Look at Your Game Girl" is an amazing song. I've never really heard any of Manson's songs and now I want to dig deeper. That's the great thing about art, it turns pre-conceptions upside down. I put this song on a mix CD and played it at my Halloween dinner, with my grandparents eating nearby. Would they go kill someone cuz they heard the sweet love song by a killer? Everyone gets dillillusioned, he just decided to stop picking up a pen and go for a knife instead. Great song Charlie. Changes my whole idea of good and evil. Why’s everybody scared to listen to these songs?It’s like the hysteria of playing records backwards, or going after Juda Priest in the 80s. “Look at Your Game Girl” is an amazing song. I’ve never really heard any of Manson’s songs and now I want to dig deeper. That’s the great thing about art, it turns pre-conceptions upside down. I put this song on a mix CD and played it at my Halloween dinner, with my grandparents eating nearby.
Would they go kill someone cuz they heard the sweet love song by a killer?
Everyone gets dillillusioned, he just decided to stop picking up a pen and go for a knife instead.
Great song Charlie. Changes my whole idea of good and evil.

]]> By: CTL http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-914594 CTL Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:21:55 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-914594 Fair enough. That's a well-reasoned response. This is why I love the site; it digs under the surface and puts it all in another light. Fair enough. That’s a well-reasoned response. This is why I love the site; it digs under the surface and puts it all in another light.

]]> By: Why Love Songs Should Live on | http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2009/10/30/charles-manson-lie-the-love-and-terror-cult/comment-page-1/#comment-914049 Why Love Songs Should Live on | Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:09:24 +0000 http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/?p=8551#comment-914049 [...] Aquarium Drunkard: Music Blog ? Charles Manson :: Lie: The Love … [...] [...] Aquarium Drunkard: Music Blog ? Charles Manson :: Lie: The Love … [...]

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